I found this article in relation to Islamic belief that Jesus (pbuh) was only divine. Would love to hear arguments from both sides.
I
Position of Jesus (pbuh) in Islam:
(i)
Islam is the only non-Christian faith, which makes it an article of faith to believe in Jesus (pbuh). No Muslim is a Muslim if he does not believe in Jesus (pbuh).
(ii)
We believe that he was one of the mightiest Messengers of Allah (swt).
(iii)
We believe that he was born miraculously, without any male intervention, which many modern day Christians do not believe.
(iv)
We believe he was the Messiah translated Christ (pbuh).
(v)
We believe that he gave life to the dead with God’s permission.
(iv)
We believe that he healed those born blind, and the lepers with God’s permission.
II
CONCEPT OF GOD IN CHRISTIANITY:
1.
Jesus Christ (pbuh) never claimed Divinity
One may ask, if both Muslims and Christians love and respect Jesus (pbuh), where exactly is the parting of ways? The major difference between Islam and Christianity is the Christians’ insistence on the supposed divinity of Christ (pbuh). A study of the Christian scriptures reveals that Jesus (pbuh) never claimed divinity. In fact there is not a single unequivocal statement in the entire Bible where Jesus (pbuh) himself says, “I am God” or where he says, “worship me”. In fact the Bible contains statements attributed to Jesus (pbuh) in which he preached quite the contrary. The following statements in the Bible are attributed to Jesus Christ (pbuh):
(i) “My Father is greater than I.”
[The Bible, John 14:28]
(ii) “My Father is greater than all.”
[The Bible, John 10:29]
(iii) “…I cast out devils by the Spirit of God….”
[The Bible, Mathew 12:28]
(iv) “…I with the finger of God cast out devils….”
[The Bible, Luke 11:20]
(v) “I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgement is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.”
[The Bible, John 5:30]
2.
The Mission of Jesus Christ (pbuh) – to Fulfill the Law
Jesus (pbuh) never claimed divinity for himself. He clearly announced the nature of his mission. Jesus (pbuh) was sent by God to confirm the previous Judaic law. This is clearly evident in the following statements attributed to Jesus (pbuh) in the Gospel of Mathew:
“Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
“Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven; but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”
“For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.”
[The Bible, Mathew 5:17-20]
3.
God Sent Jesus’ (pbuh)
The Bible mentions the prophetic nature of Jesus (pbuh) mission in the following verses:
(i)
“… and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me.”
[The Bible, John 14:24]
(ii)
“And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou has sent.”
[The Bible, John 17:3]
4.
Jesus Refuted even the Remotest Suggestion of his Divinity
Consider the following incident mentioned in the Bible:
“And behold, one came and said unto him, ‘Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?’
And he said unto him, ‘Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.’ ”
[The Bible, Mathew 19:16-17]
Jesus (pbuh) did not say that to have the eternal life of paradise, man should believe in him as Almighty God or worship him as God, or believe that Jesus (pbuh) would die for his sins. On the contrary he said that the path to salvation was through keeping the commandments. It is indeed striking to note the difference between the words of Jesus Christ (pbuh) and the Christian dogma of salvation through the sacrifice of Jesus (pbuh).
5.
Jesus (pbuh) of Nazareth – a Man Approved of God
The following statement from the Bible supports the Islamic belief that Jesus (pbuh) was a prophet of God.
“Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know.”
[The Bible, Acts 2:22]
6.
The First Commandment is that God is One
The Bible does not support the Christian belief in trinity at all. One of the scribes once asked Jesus (pbuh) as to which was the first commandment of all, to which Jesus (pbuh) merely repeated what Moses (pbuh) had said earlier:
“Shama Israelu Adonai Ila Hayno Adonai Ikhad.”
This is a Hebrew quotation, which means:
“Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord.”
[The Bible, Mark 12:29]
It is striking that the basic teachings of the Church such as Trinity and vicarious atonement find no mention in the Bible. In fact, various verses of the Bible point to Jesus’ (pbuh) actual mission, which was to fulfill the law revealed to Prophet Moses (pbuh). Indeed Jesus (pbuh) rejected any suggestions that attributed divinity to him, and explained his miracles as the power of the One True God.
Jesus (pbuh) thus reiterated the message of monotheism that was given by all earlier prophets of Almighty God.
NOTE: All quotations of the Bible are taken from the King James Version.
III
CONCEPT OF GOD IN OLD TESTAMENT:
1.
God is One
The following verse from the book of Deuteronomy contains an exhortation from Moses (pbuh):
“Shama Israelu Adonai Ila Hayno Adna Ikhad”.
It is a Hebrew quotation which means:
“Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord”
[The Bible, Deuteronomy 6:4]
2.
Unity of God in the Book of Isaiah
The following verses are from the Book of Isaiah:
(i)
“I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.”
[The Bible, Isaiah 43:11]
(ii)
“I am Lord, and there is none else, there is no God besides me.”
[The Bible, Isaiah 45:5]
(iii)
“I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me.”
[The Bible, Isaiah 46:9]
3.
Old Testament condemns idol worship
(i)
Old Testament condemns idol worship in the following verses:
“Thou shalt have no other gods before me.”
“Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:”
“Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God.”
[The Bible, Exodus 20:3-5]
(ii)
A similar message is repeated in the book of Deuteronomy:
“Thou shalt have none other gods before me.”
“Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that in the earth beneath, or that is in the water beneath the earth.”
“Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them; for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God.”
[The Bible, Deuteronomy 5:7-9]
Taken from here
All of the above ignores the many episodes in the Gospels when Jesus scandalizes the Jews of his time by doing something attributable to God alone (like forgiving sins, working on the Sabbath or raising the dead), but does nothing to deny the implication of divine prerogative.
It also ignores his quite explicit claim to divinity during an episode recounted in John 8:48-59:
“At this time, the Jews exclaimed… ‘Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?’… Jesus answered, “Before Abraham was born, I AM!’”
Those last two words made the Jews want to stone him to death. Why? Because they realized it was a claim to divinity, remembering how God identified himself in the burning bush to Moses (Exodus 3:1-21):
“Moses said to God, ‘Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, “The God of your fathers has sent me to you,” and they ask me, “What is his name?” Then what shall I tell them?’ God said to Moses, ‘I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: “I AM has sent me to you.”‘ God also said to Moses, ‘Say to the Israelites, “He-Who-Is, the God of your fathers —- the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob -— has sent me to you.” This is my name forever, the name by which I am to be remembered.’”
In identifying himself as the divine I AM, He-Who-Is, Yahweh, Jesus was certainly claiming divinity — which is why the Jews who heard him make this claim were outraged and wanted to stone him.
August 21, 2007 @ 10:09 amSome good points there Gregory, and welcome.
So how would one explain Matthew 27:45-46 where Jesus outright cries out to God as someone separate. He clearly isn’t calling out to himself, but to God. He doesn’t even go to the point to saying Abba Abba why has thou forsaken me, but “MY God”, therefore designating a distinct difference between God and Jesus.
There is a serious conflict within the Gospels based on what is said as to whether or not Jesus is claiming to be divine or another prophet.
We also see in Matthew 27:45-46 that Jesus states that only God know the time that Jesus will return. Therefore designating another distinct difference, and separation between God and Jesus. For if Jesus was God, in a monotheistic sense, would not Jesus know? Would not the spirit know? There is no conflict in Islam in the fact the Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary through the Divine Will of Allah, just as Adam was created from dust. But this did not make Adam divine, but made Allah father and creator of us all.
For years I have conflicted with these things, and through reason I have been led to believe one thing. That if presented with two opposing ideas only one can be true. Based on this reasoning, one is led to believe that somewhere along the way Scripture has been tampered with, and is no longer credible or reliable for arguments sake, for or against. So while I used scripture from another source to show the prophethood of Jesus, and you have used scripture to defend the divinity of Jesus, we have both proven the unreliability of the NT.
Would love to hear more feedback on this.
August 21, 2007 @ 10:39 pmi see it exactly as muslims take understanding the quran. they need a tafseer to understand the meaning of the quran and we need the tradition to understand the meaning of the bible.
if you discuss quranic texts with a muslim, you’ll often hear “yes, but this is what it means”. neither religion believes that you can take the text out of the traditional context of how it is suppose to teach the believer.
your examples are those of muslims who are simply looking at words in a book to justify their arguments against christianity.
August 30, 2007 @ 12:37 amDavid -
You have a good point about tradition, although I’ve never discussed Koran with a Muslim so I don’t know how they react. Never even broken the book open, actually. Most non-Christians argue with Christians from a text-only standpoint. Which is ironic because neither RCs nor EOs nor Liberal Protestants accept that standard.
Of course that begs the question of which tradition does one turn to for a reply?
August 30, 2007 @ 8:22 pmhuw -
tradition is the crux for most. do we follow the tradtion that has the most historical precedence? do we following what we think was the first tradition without any thought to what happened between the first years of the religion and now? do we just interpret things based on how i see current life through my eyes and personal experiences?
muslims are told that there are 73 sects and only one will be saved - so they are all hoping to be in the saved sect. good luck!
September 1, 2007 @ 12:05 pmDear An Sionnach,
“Islam is the only non-Christian faith, which makes it an article of faith to believe in Jesus (pbuh).”
I think the Baha’i Faith is also a non-Christian faith makes it an article of faith to believe in Jesus.
“Indeed, the essential pre-requisites of admittance into the Baha’i fold of Jews, Zoroastrians, Hindus, Buddhists, and the followers of other ancient Faiths, as well as of agnostics and even atheists, is the whole-hearted and unqualified acceptance by them all of the Divine origin of both Islam and Christianity, of the prophetic functions of both Muhammad and Jesus Christ..”
(Lights of Guidance, p. 68 )
Pete.
September 1, 2007 @ 1:02 pmDavid - Thats it? 73 sects, sounds like we have a better chance than Christianity where it is, last I heard, 2600 and that doesn’t include independent churches. And I am not sure where you get the idea that only 1 will be saved, for many Muslims believe that many many People of the Book will be saved, and that many Muslims will find themselves in the Hellfire. So lets try to leave the propaganda to the media, and the radicals.
Pete - Thanks for visiting, and welcome. I think you may be correct on that. And while yes these things are proponents of the faiths are they essential? One often wonders. And while there are two parts of the Shahada, the base and foundation of the faith is the first part - La Illaha Il’Allah (There is nothing worthy of worship but God). This is exactly what all the Prophets (Peace be upon them all) taught.
September 1, 2007 @ 2:25 pmDavid - you write:
“Do we following what we think was the first tradition without any thought to what happened between the first years of the religion and now?”
That’s what Orthodox do. Exactly. Else we’d all be Jews, or at least Messianic ones. We’d never have let Constantine switch us to Sundays nor would we have had any use for Greek scriptures. We pick a tradition or else have one picked for us, and we go as far as we can.
The Muslim tradition looks at Christian Scriptures and sees X. The Orthodox see Y, the Gnostics see Z and you and I get to pic.
Strangely, none of them seem tied to Jesus any more or less directly, from the outside looking in.
September 1, 2007 @ 2:40 pmhuw said - “Strangely, none of them seem tied to Jesus any more or less directly, from the outside looking in”.
that’s exactly the point - you cannot know the heart of any religion from the outside. that’s how many misunderstandings happen.
an sionnach said - “73 sects, sounds like we have a better chance than Christianity where it is, last I heard, 2600 and that doesn’t include independent churches. And I am not sure where you get the idea that only 1 will be saved”
this comes from the accepted sunnah of tirmidhi - “Jews divided into 71 sects, Christians divided into 72 sects, and the Muslim nation will divide into 73 sects of whom all will be in hellfire except for one”.
two egyptian scholars with whom i correspond by email would say that only those people of the book who were alive at the time when the books were not corrupted and who followed the uncorrupted teachings will be saved. no christian who commits shirk will be saved - full stop.
September 1, 2007 @ 4:55 pmremember that islam is not a progressive religion. muslims believe that jews and christians received the exact same revelation as muhammad gave to the muslims. so if jews and christians are not following the quran, the sunnah and the hadith - they will not be saved.
“The Lord Christ said, ‘He that hath seen Me hath seen the Father’ — God manifested in man.
The sun does not leave his place in the heavens and descend into the mirror, for the actions of ascent and descent, coming and going, do not belong to the Infinite, they are the methods of finite beings. In the Manifestation of God, the perfectly polished mirror, appear the qualities of the Divine in a form that man is capable of comprehending.
This is so simple that all can understand it,..”
(Abdu’l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 26 )
Baha’is believe in the Prophets and often refer to them as “Manifistations of God”. They also believe all the attributes of God are Manifested in them.
I can say the image of myself in a mirror is Pete and that is true in one sense.
If I say my image in a mirror is not Pete that is also true in another sense.
Pete.
September 2, 2007 @ 5:35 amDavid said-”two egyptian scholars with whom i correspond by email would say that only those people of the book who were alive at the time when the books were not corrupted and who followed the uncorrupted teachings will be saved. no christian who commits shirk will be saved - full stop.
remember that islam is not a progressive religion. muslims believe that jews and christians received the exact same revelation as muhammad gave to the muslims. so if jews and christians are not following the quran, the sunnah and the hadith - they will not be saved.”
“Jews divided into 71 sects, Christians divided into 72 sects, and the Muslim nation will divide into 73 sects of whom all will be in hellfire except for one”.
Pete says-The two Egyption scholars seem to ignore the fact that this does not state _who_ will not be saved, but how many of _the sects_ will be in “hellfire”.
Pete.
September 2, 2007 @ 8:30 am